From midnight next Monday (29th October 2007) all learner drivers will have to be accompanied by a driver who holds a full licence for at least 2 years. This new law will also include second provisional licence holders, who have in the past been immune to the law requiring learner drivers to have a full licence holder with them, when driving.
The new Road Safety Strategy 2007 was announced by An Taoiseach, Mr. Bertie Ahern T.D., the Minister for Transport, Mr. Noel Dempsey T.D., and the Minister for Justice Mr. Brian Lennihan T.D. yesterday.
The key changes in the to be introduced are:
- The provisional licence is being replaced by a learner permit to emphasise the fact that the holder is learning to drive.
- Existing provisional licences will continue in force until their expiry date after which the holder will be issued with a learner permit.
- A holder of a second provisional licence/learner permit for a car must be accompanied at all times.
- The accompanying driver must in respect of any licence category hold a full licence for the category for at least two years.
- From 1 December 2007 a learner motorcyclist must wear the letter L on a yellow fluorescent tabard.
- From 1 December a provisional licence/learner permit holder must hold the licence/permit for six months before taking a driving test.
They have a completely new graduated license process, similar to that of the UK. Here’s a diagram to show you the process.
(click to enlarge).
So what does that mean for all those provisional licence drivers now? Well anyone caught driving without a licence holder of two years or more, will be hit with a €1,000 fine.
All sounds good in theory, but how will the Gardai clamp down on these drivers? For me, I think it will just push provisional drivers underground. I personally think this is just going to drive learner drivers to remove their L plates and pretend to be full licence holders.
As much as I welcome these new laws, how they will enforce these new laws.
The new laws are likely to cause huge public debate and confusion, generally based around the holders of second provisional licences. As mentioned above, these drivers (120,000 of them) have legally been allowed to drive on Irish roads without a licensed driver - from Monday though, it will be illegal to do so.
I spoke today with a current second provisional licence holder. He is outraged and feels he should have got more notice of the new law. As much as I have sympathy for him, I don’t think he should have been given more notice. He has held the second licence for a while now and he admits he didn’t bother applying for a new licence because it wasn’t illegal for him to drive with his second provisional.
This law is well overdue and is made to create a safer environment for all road users, which lets face it, is nearly all of us. It’s ludicrous to think that someone that has failed a driving test - can get straight back into their car and drive on our roads. I’ve spoke about this before here >>
The next big question now is how will this affect the waiting lists for getting a licence?? It’s always been a nightmare to get a test, what are the government doing to shorten the waiting lists?
Will there be provisions for drivers on the waiting list? If so, is this just a pointless new law that won’t be at all effective???
NEWSFLASH: What a government we have…. only announced and then this
Friday, 26 October 2007 13:06 >> http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1026/roadsafety.html
I’m sitting my driving test in December so and i’m on my second provisional. Will this effect me?
how about a 3rd or 4th provisional licence are they effected
I think this is fanatstic. This is the way it works the world over. It’s good that ireland is finally doing something about the high per capita rate of road deaths (10th highest in Europe). The previous law was a joke! In the past a lot of focus was (rightly) placed on speeding drivers, but not much focus was placed on the fact that a large portion of Irish road users only had rudimentary idea of how to drive in the first place. As for enforcement, it now means that L drivers will now not be covered by insurance without a licenced driver present, which I think will be a bigger motivation than Garda checks. So I don’t think the new laws will be entirely ineffective. Well done Mr. Dempsey. Saying that, I must agree that it is a bit sudden - it could have been planned better.
Can somebody please explain, I currently hold a third provisional licence, am awaiting to sit my driving test, still…. I’m 34 years of age, have 4 years driving experience and depend on my car for work, consider myself a safe driver now at this stage, obviously this affects me also?
So if you are on your second/third/fourth provisional you either haven’t bothered doing your driving test or have failed it one/two/three times… either way you shouldn’t be driving on your own. Great news, there are far too many idiots on the road.
I live in an isolated community with ZERO public transport. If I’m to stick to the letter of the law I’ll have to quit my job and go on benefits. I’ve been waiting six months for a test, it’s not MY fault that the government has allowed this massive backlog to build up and instead of doing something to clear THAT we L drivers have to get punished instead.
I’ve just taken my L plates off my car and will continue to drive because I have no choice. I shall have to take my chances and if I’m stopped I’ll have my day in court and will fight it all the way.
The problem isn’t all L drivers - it’s the absolute beginners who take their cars out after two driving lessons that cause the problems. I’m driving a year now and I’m careful and believe myself to be a capable driver. This is another money racket by the blood sucking government we voted in - it’s forcing us to break the law.
I applied for my test in April and have my date on the 8th of November.. How am I supposed to practice for my test now?? I cannot afford to pay 30euro per hour for my driving school to superivse my driving, and my husband has his licence since May so cannot supervise me either…
This sudden change in the law is putting a large number of people in an impossible predicament…and should have been phased in.
I think this is a comlete farce, I rely on my car and not one member of my family holds a full licence.
How am I expected to learn to drive? Does the government expect me to rent out a driving instructer every time I wish to drive my car?
In relation to road accidents, are there any statistics showing the amount of accidents involving a provisional licence holder as opposed to full licence holders? I seriously doubt it.
A COMPLETE AND UTTER MONEY MAKING SCAM.
Sarah says - “(I) consider myself a safe driver now at this stage”
Ciara says - “I’m driving a year now and I’m careful and believe myself to be a capable driver”
What qualifies you to say this? Neither of you haven’t passed your driving test, and Sarah, you have had plenty of time to do it, so either you haven’t applied, or you have failed it at least once, neither of which would make you a particularly safe driver.
Firstly, yes it effects anyone that holds any type of provisional driving licence.
To all that rely on their license, what would you have done if you lived in the UK? The same applies up there.
And on another note…. (sorry for bringing in politics) how many of you voted for Fianna Fail?
The Government should have a driving test centre in every major town in Ireland before they start implementing such impractical laws which are going to put considerable strain on a lot of people in rural Ireland especially who depend on their cars to get to the shops, to Church or to work. People who have L plates who have elderly relatives will be severely penalised on this also. I see many people driving badly and these are fully licensed drivers. Perhaps an age limit should be put on this new law to affect 18-25 year old learner drivers only as they are the category with the most accidents.
I think it’s an absolute scam. It’s pointless introducing these kind of laws when they are neglecting the biggest problem-the waiting time for driving tests!It’s just not feasible for alot of people to have a fully licienced driver of at least 2 years with them all the time. It’s going to force people to take their ‘L’ plates off which in turn will probably cause more accidents. The giovernment is going around in circles!
What an amazing government we have…. Only a day old and they are already talking about putting it back to the new year… http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1026/roadsafety.html
they must be big fans of your blog Tom
hahahahaha
[...] » New rules for learner drivers [...]
You ask a question about what the government is doing to reduce waiting times for tests?
That’s the remit of the RSA, and they are doing something, waiting list times have been reduced from 33 weeks to 23 weeks in the past year:
http://www.rsa.ie/NEWS/News/Driving_Test_Waiting_Times.html
Stuart Curry let me tell you what qualifies me as a safe driver - I’m driving a solid year and in that time I’ve been faced with icy roads, fog, kids running out in front of me, emergency stops, bullies probably like yourself - pretty much anything you could throw at me and I’ve never had so much as a scratch. L plate doesn’t mean bad driver just remember that. I stick to speed limits, drive with both hands on the wheel and take my driving very seriously - you don’t know me - how dare you make an assumption that just because I have an L plate on my car doesn’t mean I’m a safe driver.
@ elly - that’s at their current application levels. What happens now with 300,000 people needing a licence before Tuesday (if it goes ahead of course)? I don’t think they could handle that.
@ Ciara - would you let a doctor perform surgery on you, just because he’s lots of experience, but isn’t fully qualified?
I agree that it’s not your fault about the whole waiting list debacle and it’s going to be interesting to see what the government will do about this by Tuesday.
In the UK you dont have to wait months for a driving test like here…do dont make comparisons with them. The waiting lists for learner drivers here in this country is an absolute disgrace in this day and age. You shouldnt have to wait more than 3 weeks for a test.
To be honest, new rules should be welcomed, however, I have been waiting my driving test for three months,it is not my fault that not having Full License. Government should have considerated to impove the efficiency before the new rules came out??
What qualifies me Stewart is four years driving experience, accident free, therefore I would be considered a safe driver. For reasons out of my control, i was unable to apply for my test, however, am now awaiting a test which was applied for early this year.. A little bit of notice about this ‘new law’ would have been greatly appreciated. In my view, age should be a major target here, lets face it, statistics speak for themselves here.
@ Annabel - comparing with the UK is a safe comparison. If you were there now, you wouldn’t be able to drive by yourself. Yes we have a problem with the waiting lists, but when was the last time you applied?
I agree with this law in principal. However I disagree with the minimum 6 months holding a permit before you can sit a test. A test should be made available to you almost immediately if you want it. Then,you either make the grade or you dont! I can’t help thinking that the 6 months wait is a cover up for the govermments inability to tackle the waiting list.
Also, “people will remove their L plates” !!!
What L plates?
I haven’t seen a car with L plates for ages.
I don’t know what current average waiting times in the UK are these days, but in 1995 in Northern Ireland they were 8 weeks.
Tradition amongst my school mates was to apply for the test on the day you received your licence and therefore sit the test about 8-9 weeks after turning 17. About 70% of us passed on first attempt.
We lived in areas with no public transport after 5pm in the evening and our parents were too busy to drive us around. When you are faced with either passing or sitting at home every night, you sure start to learn quickly!!
People who spend years driving around themselves without regular lessons pick up lots of bad habits (this happens to everyone after they pass their test), therefore it’s harder to learn the correct techniques and actually pass the test. We learn best when we are younger and recently our of our schools system, it’s a force of habit at that point in our lives.
For years now in Ireland there has been no real ‘incentive’ to sit and pass the tests, changing the law in this will will provide people with a reason to ‘get up off their asses’ at last.
And remember, if you rely on using a car for your job, you can get your employer to write a letter stating this and send it in to the testing authority, this should get you a test within a few weeks. Stop moaning and actually do something about it!!
Well I just wanted to share, I passed my test today!! WooHoo…… and I only heard about these new laws when I’d finished. I was on my 4th prov license as everytime my test came around I was otherwise unavailable or out of the country. I also passed without taking any lessons as I was very confident of my driving skills.
So there is such a thing as “competent provisional drivers”!!
So I can sympatise with genuine good provisional drivers who’ve had this sprung on ‘em. It should be phased in and should only apply to anyone who’s not yet applied for their test.
this is just crazy talk.half the country are l drivers.. how do they expect people to get to work :???? many people will loose there jobs over this mess. i think this law should not be imposed on all l drivers but just are “little boy racers”
€1,000 on the spot fine, Bertie €38k payrise…. Hmmmm
Hi im fourteen years old. My mother has started driving again after she stopped for a couple of years due to an accident and only started driving again in May last. I think these rules are way too drastic. It will effect my mother because she has five year payments left on her car which she cant get out of. So these new rules are implying that her car has to be left outside our home to rot, until she is finished the payments as there is no one we know who is going to give up time and go out with her in her car!!!! Its harsh unorthodox like wh made these rules! Sarah Barrett, 14, Dublin
According to http://www.rsa.ie/NEWS/News/Navigation.html the rule about being accompanied has only been changed with regard to people on their second license - people on their first, third or subsequent are already required *by law* to be accompanied. And to the people who say they can’t afford driving lessons: if you can afford to buy, tax, insure, run and maintain a car, you can afford to get driving lessons and become a qualified driver.
@ Patricia - again, I personally donn’t think any learner driver should be on the road by themselves, no matter how good or bad they are.
@ Sarah - I sympathise with your mother, but that’s life. There’s been talk about this new law for ages.
@ Shell - yeah well there’s talk about this being a decoy alright, but I don’t believe that.
I am just completely taken aback by this incredible mindless decision by the Government. They seriously need help these guys….are they living on this planet - i dont think so…!!
The Government have sat back for years and allowed provisional licence holders to drive continuously and leave them waiting six months to a year to do a test. Now they slap this on them on a Bank Holiday weekend. Its absolutely crazy…!!
Many people in rural Ireland will be unable to comply with the law simply because it cannot be done. Where are they going to get a competent driver to sit beside them just so as they can go to the Shops, to a School, to work or whatever…
The issue should be solving the problem of Driver Testing, not penalising the Learner drivers who suffer because of the Governments failure to tackle the long waiting lists for driving tests.
This is mind boggling stuff. I wonder who was the person who actually came up with this incredibly unintelligent and impractical law. My God it is just unreal !!
well,well,well.thank you for bringing in the law at the last minute.what do u want L drivers to do now?how do we get our kids to school.people with full licence have enough to deal with than to babysit L drivers.You think L drivers are your problem in this country.Some L drivers are more careful drivers than full licence holders.my only comment is while you are stopping L drivers from driving,please try and shorten the waiting time for people who have already applied for full licence.
[...] » New laws for learner drivers [...]
It will be interesting to see what licenses were held by those involved in the spate of tragic accidents that occurred this weekend.
That it will Stewart! Probably none… What did you have to talk about last week before all of this happened..?
What Do They Do In America? they let learners out on their own from the start and tell them to be careful. thats it. as far as I know.
I passed my test yesterday so this no longer includes me
The law is being brought in to try and make things safer for road users. You will always have the people who will drive without a full or provisional licence and those with no insurance and the correct punishments will have to be in place to deal with them when caught. The long waiting times for driving tests is an issue which the government will need to address but the idea is to promote safer driving. Enforcing a minimum amount of driving tuition together with your own private practice should make better drivers over time.
ireland may be the only developed country to allow unfully licensed people unaccompanied out on the roads but its also got one of the highest failure rates on driving tests. Surely this is not down to so many irish drivers being unsafe drivers! Its down to unsafe roads and bad signs/directions etc. This is getting better in recent years but is that why they’ve introduced this new law out of the blue to show “progress”? I have a provisional and have applied for my test but find it very unnassuring that i wont be able to get the required practice i need because i cant get out on the road. not many of my friends have licenses over 2 years AND the free time to accompany me.
i think it is silly! no1 no public transport in my area! no2 i am 17 in july! i have been driving tractos,quad,jeeps,cars, everything and anything from the very smallest ot the biggest! forklifts digers etc offroad and onroad! in the heart of winter up fields,lanes, and mainroads and i past my theory test. lets just say one thing i no i can drive no question asked, i can,. so i feel safe to drive on my own! and i will cause really everybody from my area will because you need to really and you will just, its silly this lets see how the law work pat:we are going to crash jim: damit your right so 4th its not the second driver thats makes the differences its not that you cannot drive its speed just speed notting less… and aswell i would take my driving test straight away why do i have to wait 6 months if i pass it now or pass it then its the same thing you passed the same test! why??
and if some of yee dont lik it tuf! go back and drive your what isit fait panda or micras il stick to the range rovers audis thank you
I ran over 3 cats on my way to work and I have a provisional licence, but they werent fully off the road so I blame them…
this is the most stupid law ireland has introduced yet…………… taking l drivers will not solve the problem of road deaths. re-testing our socity of already full licensened drivers every six years would make those idiots re think there driving skills……….. L drivers should go and protest after all there are 330,000 of us that should make a statement to our idiototic government!!!!!
@ Lily - L driver right?
@Lily: if you are planning a big protest make sure you travel there with a licenced driver in the car…
get L drivers off the road their hopeless
Siobhan was obviously born a natural & went straight from puberty to Full licensed driver overnight!!! I know plenty of full licensed drivers who are hopeless aswell but if they can get from A to B without killing anyone then fair enough….. Siobhan obviously has a chip on her shoulder…. i.e. I have my full license.
[...] I spoke about it before and my attitude has still not changed. This law is well overdue and all the silly provisional license holders who believe this is a joke, need to get a reality check. [...]
about time this law came in,But we all know that most of these L drivers are gonna remove the L plate and take a chance because of work/children etc..
And what happens to the full licence driver who is hit by an unsupervised Learner? If their insurance wont pay out then where does that leave us Qualified drivers especially those of us who drive for a living,it wont just be a family without a car but a family whose income has now stopped because of this new law. some of it makes for good driving but not all…
bloody stupid just because somebody goes in and passes their test does not make them a good driver.An 18 year old will do everything right to pass his test then go out the road and and turn into a little boy or girl racer.Then he or she has their friend with them that has their licence 2 years what difference will that make cant see the sence in it.
@ Mags - ok so I guess we should just let everyone drive on the roads without ever being tested can they actually do it at all??
yeah that makes so much sense….